Introduce your antagonist(s)

In this topic we'll be talking about our antagonists. Some people (like myself) have multiple antagonists for their story, others only have one. I'd like to leave this open so you can dissect any antagonist that you have issues with (from this book or previous ones) but you can stick to one book if you prefer.

The aim of this is to get to know your antagonists better, understand their motivations and get some feedback on them

I can go first

Name: Arrio of the Land of the Phoenix (Not entirely certain of this name)
Age: 42
Birthplace: Royal Palace

Occupation: King of the Land of the Phoenix and (according to him) soon to be ruler of Bucansi, the neighbouring country.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
Good looking, blond hair, brown eyes, tall and middle weight, long beard (he's not a fighting king, more of a strategy king).

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious, recognises potential in others, strategises for long term gain
Flaw(s): greedy, controlling, tyrant, selfish
Trademark/Quirk: calls his daughter "My Phoenix" rather than by her name.

STORY EXCERPT
Fiachella was summoned to her father the next day. He looked at her and his eyes went up to the tiara on her head that she had to wear every day. It was gold with a bird, beak pointing to the sky, its wings spread eagled. It was based off the crown her mother, Queen Telini, wore. However, when her mother had worn her crown, it was lit with magic fire at all times, revealing the phoenix that hid in the human skin.

For most of her life, whenever the king's eyes flicked to her unlit tiara, the princess wondered if she would ever be the phoenix her mother was or wield the magic she had been born to. Now, however, such thoughts didn't enter her mind. She had long since given up on the idea that she would ever use magic or light her tiara as her mother once lit her crown.

“My Phoenix, come here,” said her father. His sandy blond hair seemed to fade into his golden crown. Brown eyes, so similar to Fiachella’s own that even Pacaus, her most trusted guard, saw her father when he looked at her. The king’s blond moustache joined his beard and golden cords and sapphires threaded through the facial hair, pulling it into a short, neat braid.

[[I don't really feel like using the same format as for the protagonist one (especially as I have multiple) so Imma just use a list and description set up. ]]

Artemisia Whitmore: Given the name Artemis at birth, this gorgeous woman grew up knowing she and her family were destined for greatness. And if not destined...well, then she was going to make her own destiny. At the ripe old age of 15 she changed her name and tried to seduce the reigning king...but was thwarted by the fact he was married and unattracted to her. When he died two years later, a young single Thorsten ascended to the throne. This time she had much more success and became the king's official mistress. She bade her time for a year, waiting for the marriage proposal that would make her queen. Her future mother-in-law was not a fan of her, but then she died as well. Unfortunately for the mistress, only a couple weeks later the king put her aside to court a new woman to be his queen. But Artemisia has been scheming for too long to be put aside by some harlot outsider. And she is willing to do anything to reach the top.

Gregor Mortem: He's an evil, heartless, thirty-something that somehow managed to snag himself a position on the adviser's council. He's the perfect politician and has many friends on the council. He can always get everyone to agree (usually with what he wants to do) and so earned the respect of the king. He hates the homely woman he's married to, almost as much as the king's adoptive sister that seems to always be in the way. The best way to get power, he decided, isn't to be one the throne but inside the mind of the one who sits on it. He will not rest until he is the sole influence on the king's decisions. Even if he has to remove every other person one by one.

Ulric and Aurora Riverpeak: King and Queen of the neighboring kingdom, Ulric and Aurora begin as the allies to Erried. It's Aurora's sister that King Thorsten falls in love with. It's their adoptive seer daughter Sydelle they send for the oracle Mirabel to teach. And then two more seers show up in Erried after rescuing Sydelle's family from the Riverpeak's dungeon. People begin to realize the couple aren't as innocent as they seem. It's hard to be allies with the people who kidnapped an entire family in order to manipulate an 8 year old mind reader. Diplomacy turns useless and the once allied kingdoms become enemies on the battlefield. Aurora's sister, the soon-to-be queen Rosaline, is left with the realization that she never really knew her sister at all.  

[[These are the antagonists so far. There are also some references to tribal people in the north of the country that aren't a fan of who they refer to as their oppressors. I haven't decided if they'll be antagonists or unlikely allies yet.]]

I was going to introduce another format for antagonists, then decided against it because the format I was about to provide was more of a character analysis rather than introduction. But in that post, I was going to say that you can use whatever format you like. I went with this format because (I didn't realise this, to my horror, until I started filling it out) that the king didn't have a name! One of the most important characters didn't have a name!

Already this topic has helped me.

As for formats, I think it is better to go with what fits the character the best.

Name: Tedwin Avery
Age: 49

Occupation: Mage hunter and member of the Order of the Sun (basically the magical inquisition).

Description: A seasoned warrior of noble heritage who has hunted mages for over half his life. His wife and unborn child were killed by a mage and he swore to avenge her. He might not be as fast as he used to be but he must not be underestimated. His skill is renowned and deadly. Few mages have escaped him a first time and when they did they not often escaped a second time.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
About 180 cm (5’11”) tall, broad and fit. He carries himself like a warrior and looks like he has known fighting for all his live. He probably was quite handsome when he was younger but now scars and a broken nose decorate his face. His short hair is a darkish grey and he has a short well-kept beard.

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious, persistent, strategical thinking, straightforward.
Flaw(s): Unreasonable when it comes to mages, opinionated toward mages. He is not very political.
Trademark/Quirk: His hate for mages, skills as a fighter.

I am not quite sure about this yet. But I think part of why he is as good at hunting mages as he is, because he perhaps made a deal with a demon. This do not mean his fighting and ‘normal’ hunting skills but something you can’t quite put your finger on. He is a little unsettling when you see him.  Mages look like perfectly normal people and you probably wouldn’t know someone was a mage unless that person told you or you saw him/her doing magic. But he just seems to have an instinct for finding mages when they are near.

I also want him to have something like a good side. I don't think he is a completely bad person, he is just messed up. I think he would be good to his comrades and that he can be a pretty good friend. But he is relentless when it comes to mages.

Astrid wrote:As for formats, I think it is better to go with what fits the character the best.

Name: Tedwin Avery
Age: 49

Occupation: Mage hunter and member of the Order of the Sun (basically the magical inquisition).

Description: A seasoned warrior of noble heritage who has hunted mages for over half his life. His wife and unborn child were killed by a mage and he swore to avenge her. He might not be as fast as he used to be but he must not be underestimated. His skill is renowned and deadly. Few mages have escaped him a first time and when they did they not often escaped a second time.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
About 180 cm (5’11”) tall, broad and fit. He carries himself like a warrior and looks like he has known fighting for all his live. He probably was quite handsome when he was younger but now scars and a broken nose decorate his face. His short hair is a darkish grey and he has a short well-kept beard.

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious, persistent, strategical thinking, straightforward.
Flaw(s): Unreasonable when it comes to mages, opinionated toward mages. He is not very political.  
Trademark/Quirk: His hate for mages, skills as a fighter.

I am not quite sure about this yet. But I think part of why he is as good at hunting mages as he is, because he perhaps made a deal with a demon. This do not mean his fighting and ‘normal’ hunting skills but something you can’t quite put your finger on. He is a little unsettling when you see him.  Mages look like perfectly normal people and you probably wouldn’t know someone was a mage unless that person told you or you saw him/her doing magic. But he just seems to have an instinct for finding mages when they are near.

I also want him to have something like a good side. I don't think he is a completely bad person, he is just messed up. I think he would be good to his comrades and that he can be a pretty good friend. But he is relentless when it comes to mages.

I always love when the bad guy isn't just stereotypically bad. Most people in the real world have reasons behind the bad things they do It's especially interesting when they bad guy thinks they're the good guy, when they honestly believe they're on the right track. it opens up a whole new discussion and new themes for the story.

Is he ever going to tell the story of the mage that killed his wife and child?

I have two.

Goraidh

human, male, 50-something, warrior, looks like Alan Rickman, the King's Trusted Advisor (in other words, the Evil Vizier). But he's actually more complex than that. Our King is an old, paranoid fool who is convinced mages are out to steal his throne and take over, so with Goraidh's help, he turns his realm into a nightmare for mages. Because he's Genre Blind. Goraidh, on the other hand, has personal reasons to hate mages and he just fuels the old man's fears.

Mages either 1) have sworn loyalty to the King, each assigned a personal handler 2) if they refused, or did anything "illegal", got sent to a horrible prison, few of them have returned and they are completely broken 3) are on the run, under constant threat of 2) or being killed. Most prefer the latter.

Goriadh has a chance to repent later - at least in some variants of the story. I'm doing a Rashomon narration which multiple endings.

Raina

human, female, 40s, brown, her hair is prematurely white, but she's still in top form. Wields a two-handed BFS. Co-dragons with Goraidh, leader of the lovely Black Citadel where mages are sent to be reminded their place and their duty to their King. Creepy as fuck. Imagine an Orwellian villain in a high fantasy setting. The reason why they'd break mages rather than kill them all is that they need their skills. Badly. So they make them loyal (Raina speak for "brainwashed slaves") and set a personal guard on each who will all but keep them on a leash.

But she'll be an awesome Final Boss. She's ruthless and unapologetically nasty. I love her. She also plays the tuba in her free time.

The King is a minor character and a tool.


Basically, my human kingdom is all fucked up. My dwarves, who come from a relatively healthy and normal society, will be all "what the hell of WRONG with you people".

Call Me Nefret wrote:Is he ever going to tell the story of the mage that killed his wife and child?

I think he is, an honestly I think he has done it quite often. As in the fact that the mage killed his wife and child. But he wouldn't tell what happened exactly to anyone. I just need to get hem know him a little better to figure this out. And these conversations about characters are helping a lot.

Name: King Remraz Yeth Hound Khor the Third
Age: 39
Birthplace: The Great Capital City of Egonia

Occupation: (Stand-in) King of Egonia - his older brother is missing

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
Extremely good looking, tall, medium-skinned (middle eastern in origin). Wears his crown most of the time and likes to wear really ridiculous ornate outfits.

Strengths: Charming, self-assured
Flaw(s): Oblivious, obtuse, gullible, vain, unsympathetic, greedy
Trademark/Quirk: Uses the royal “We” when speaking.

Relationship to protagonist: The King of the world Thomothy (wizard apprentice) has traveled to. He absolutely hates magic, and anything to do with it - be it wizards or what he deems "the lesser creatures" such as dwarves, elves, trolls etc. He wants to see them all imprisoned and set to work in his mines.

STORY EXCERPT
Outside, the sun was shining down across the vast, desert landscape, vultures were circling in pleasant circles overhead, and the face of King Remraz Yeth Hound Khor the Third slowly turning beetroot red.

The king and his companions were still close to New Yorrick, the city’s hazy silhouette looming behind them as they followed the sandy path. They had walked some way out of the city limits – or rather, the guards had walked, and a number of servants, arm muscles straining beneath their sheer tunics, had carried the king out on an ornate gold float.

'What is THAT?!' the king roared, suddenly, pointing off in the distance. 'Put Us down! Put Us down this instant!'

The servants, glad to be rid of the weight, shifted the heavy poles of the float from their shoulders and lowered the king to the ground. The king stood up from where he had been sitting cross-legged, and a female servant rushed towards him, a basket tucked against her side. She reached into the basket and scattered something that resembled gold dust across the ground. The king stepped off the float and began to walk towards the scene, the woman hurrying in front of him, throwing handfuls of the gold dust in his path.

Note: Oh man, posting this excerpt helped a lot since I didn’t notice before but I had written “put me down, which totally breaks character lol.

Also I have two other characters that are antagonists, the king’s advisor and his mysterious shadow-y twin. But in the first book they aren’t direct antagonists to my main character… not yet anyway!

Poetic-Jessie wrote:For most of her life, whenever the king's eyes flicked to her unlit tiara, the princess wondered if she would ever be the phoenix her mother was or wield the magic she had been born to. Now, however, such thoughts didn't enter her mind. She had long since given up on the idea that she would ever use magic or light her tiara as her mother once lit her crown.

“My Phoenix, come here,” said her father. His sandy blond hair seemed to fade into his golden crown. Brown eyes, so similar to Fiachella’s own that even Pacaus, her most trusted guard, saw her father when he looked at her. The king’s blond moustache joined his beard and golden cords and sapphires threaded through the facial hair, pulling it into a short, neat braid.

Ahhh this imagery is really nice. I like the contrast between Fiachella and her father - especially their hair colour. And I also like the slight decadence in his description, reminding the reader that we're dealing with royalty, but not necessarily the most adept kind!

Elowen-Astrid wrote:I also want him to have something like a good side. I don't think he is a completely bad person, he is just messed up. I think he would be good to his comrades and that he can be a pretty good friend. But he is relentless when it comes to mages.

I just LOVE antagonists that have the possibility to turn either way; remain evil or turn good. It's really interesting to watch their inner conflict as they struggle between "what is right" and "what they believe in".

Sophie (Admin) wrote:
Ahhh this imagery is really nice. I like the contrast between Fiachella and her father - especially their hair colour. And I also like the slight decadence in his description, reminding the reader that we're dealing with royalty, but not necessarily the most adept kind!

Thanks! I struggle with description, so it's nice to get feedback on it

I'm gong to slowly go through and attempt to give feedback on all of the antagonists, this may take hours or days, depending on my what's happening in real life. But I will comment on everyone's posts (I'll be doing the same for the protagonists too)

Call Me Nefret wrote:[[I don't really feel like using the same format as for the protagonist one (especially as I have multiple) so Imma just use a list and description set up. ]]

Artemisia Whitmore: Given the name Artemis at birth, this gorgeous woman grew up knowing she and her family were destined for greatness. And if not destined...well, then she was going to make her own destiny. At the ripe old age of 15 she changed her name and tried to seduce the reigning king...but was thwarted by the fact he was married and unattracted to her. When he died two years later, a young single Thorsten ascended to the throne. This time she had much more success and became the king's official mistress. She bade her time for a year, waiting for the marriage proposal that would make her queen. Her future mother-in-law was not a fan of her, but then she died as well. Unfortunately for the mistress, only a couple weeks later the king put her aside to court a new woman to be his queen. But Artemisia has been scheming for too long to be put aside by some harlot outsider. And she is willing to do anything to reach the top.

Gregor Mortem: He's an evil, heartless, thirty-something that somehow managed to snag himself a position on the adviser's council. He's the perfect politician and has many friends on the council. He can always get everyone to agree (usually with what he wants to do) and so earned the respect of the king. He hates the homely woman he's married to, almost as much as the king's adoptive sister that seems to always be in the way. The best way to get power, he decided, isn't to be one the throne but inside the mind of the one who sits on it. He will not rest until he is the sole influence on the king's decisions. Even if he has to remove every other person one by one.

Ulric and Aurora Riverpeak: King and Queen of the neighboring kingdom, Ulric and Aurora begin as the allies to Erried. It's Aurora's sister that King Thorsten falls in love with. It's their adoptive seer daughter Sydelle they send for the oracle Mirabel to teach. And then two more seers show up in Erried after rescuing Sydelle's family from the Riverpeak's dungeon. People begin to realize the couple aren't as innocent as they seem. It's hard to be allies with the people who kidnapped an entire family in order to manipulate an 8 year old mind reader. Diplomacy turns useless and the once allied kingdoms become enemies on the battlefield. Aurora's sister, the soon-to-be queen Rosaline, is left with the realization that she never really knew her sister at all.  

[[These are the antagonists so far. There are also some references to tribal people in the north of the country that aren't a fan of who they refer to as their oppressors. I haven't decided if they'll be antagonists or unlikely allies yet.]]

I like that you have so many antagonists, it feels like a lot of stuff could go on behind the scenes. The tribal people of the north are intriguing as well, I'm curious to see what happens with them.

I like how Artemisia knows she's destined for greatness and will do anything to get it. I'm curious about the relationship between her and Annabeth (I think she's the non-ambitious twin). Is there conflict there? Does Artemisia think Annabeth not wanting power is a flaw or holding the family back somehow? I'm also wondering why she changed her name. Did she think that her name wasn't right for the greatness she'll have one day? Did she think the king would pay more attention to her if she had a more interesting name?

I love that Gregor wants to control the king's mind rather than be the king. He seems like a really clever antagonist that might be difficult to outwit. If Gregor has friends on the council and is influential among them, does that mean he can influence the king's advisers? I'm imagining an almost puppet-master like antagonist. How far does his influence reach? Or has it not gotten that far and that's his evil plan that is constantly thwarted by the protagonist?

I'm curious about the king and queen. Why did they abduct the seer child? Why did they go from allies to enemies? (Do they want to expand their country and take over Thorsten's?) Are they the ones oppressing the tribal people of the north? And Rosaline, is she the 'homely' one King Thorsten is marrying? (Ah, I've just realised that I've asked questions instead of providing feedback...) They sound like interesting antagonists. Given it's a royal story, it makes sense that there there would be other royals coming in to either assist or kick up trouble.

Anyway, I think you have well developed antagonists with interesting plot lines of their own

I love how we have some anti-mage bad guys going on

I'll try to make them complex, even my really evil lady. I prefer villains who are believeable, not ones who sit on a thone made of skulls and twirl their moustache while they pet their demon cat.

Poetic-Jessie wrote:
I like that you have so many antagonists, it feels like a lot of stuff could go on behind the scenes. The tribal people of the north are intriguing as well, I'm curious to see what happens with them.

I like how Artemisia knows she's destined for greatness and will do anything to get it. I'm curious about the relationship between her and Annabeth (I think she's the non-ambitious twin). Is there conflict there? Does Artemisia think Annabeth not wanting power is a flaw or holding the family back somehow? I'm also wondering why she changed her name. Did she think that her name wasn't right for the greatness she'll have one day? Did she think the king would pay more attention to her if she had a more interesting name?

I love that Gregor wants to control the king's mind rather than be the king. He seems like a really clever antagonist that might be difficult to outwit. If Gregor has friends on the council and is influential among them, does that mean he can influence the king's advisers? I'm imagining an almost puppet-master like antagonist. How far does his influence reach? Or has it not gotten that far and that's his evil plan that is constantly thwarted by the protagonist?

I'm curious about the king and queen. Why did they abduct the seer child? Why did they go from allies to enemies? (Do they want to expand their country and take over Thorsten's?) Are they the ones oppressing the tribal people of the north? And Rosaline, is she the 'homely' one King Thorsten is marrying? (Ah, I've just realised that I've asked questions instead of providing feedback...) They sound like interesting antagonists. Given it's a royal story, it makes sense that there there would be other royals coming in to either assist or kick up trouble.

Anyway, I think you have well developed antagonists with interesting plot lines of their own

Don't worry about it. Asking questions helps me think through things.

Artemisia honestly doesn't care about the twins. They're not quite as attractive as her, so she sort of dismisses them. And while her father may be interested in the entire family achieving greatness, she's really only interested in becoming queen herself. Baron Whitmore, however, will most definitely be angry that Annabeth isn't willing to help with their family standing. The mistress changed her name because she thought the original was too plain. In her mind, adding a couple more syllables made it more ornate and queenly. The twins will often still call her Artemis to spite her.

His influence is growing, but hasn't quite reached there yet. Right now he's one of 3 advisers the king especially counts on, including the protagonist. He wants to get rid of them to be the sole one. And it will appear for a while as if he's succeeded. Which sucks, because it means I have to kill off one of the characters I like. T_T

The seer child is a mind reader, which was an ability the king and queen wanted. This way they could tell when someone was plotting to kill them or when someone was lying. They turn from allies to enemies when Thorsten and Mirabel discover the kidnapping. Mirabel helps the child escape back to her family, which infuriates Ulric and Aurora They insist Thorsten have his adoptive sister executed for kidnapping a princess. Mirabel manages to escape just before being executed with the help of some other seers. Things are quiet for awhile, until Gregor decides he would rather be adviser to the ruler of a bigger land and decides to incite a war. He writes to Ulric and Aurora, telling them how Thorsten orchestrated his sister's escape, never intending to execute her in the first place. There's a rather tense "diplomatic summit". Ulric insists that it's a seer's job to use their gifts to help their leaders and that he and his wife did nothing wrong. Thorsten, who loves Mirabel like a sister, is understandably pissed at the idea (especially when Ulric hints that Thorsten was stupid for thinking he needed to pay his sister for her help).

Thorsten just wants to cut off the alliance. But Ulric tells him they're either allies or enemies. And if they're no longer allies, Ulric will go to war, get back the seer child and enslave every other seer he can get his hands on, including Mirabel herself. Thorsten is uneasy at going to war, until his future queen (in an incredibly dramatic moment I can't wait to write) tearfully encourages Thorsten to end the ties, knowing it means she's turning her back on her sister. And so, war ensues.

The northern tribes are repressed by Thorsten and the kings before him. It's one of those "we must save the savages from themselves" type of thing, as the kingdom proper and the tribes have different religions and customs. Either Mirabel is going to return and advise the king to make amends with the tribes and ask for their help or Gregor is going to secretly advise Ulric and Aurora before they leave to ally with the northern tribes for greater man power. Or both, with some tribes fighting with Erried and some with Orifan.

You can see why I decided to go with 75k as my word count. I have a lot of plot to undergo. And this all happens before the first battle. XD

I realised just then that I have three antagonists and I've only posted about one XD

So, introducing my second antagonist:

Name: Prince Laddiv of the Empire of Avadier (I'm unsure about this guy's name too)
Age: 22
Birthplace: Royal Palace of Avadier

Occupation: Minor prince (would he be a prince in an empire? I suppose so, there is a Prince Harry in the British Empire) of the Avadierish Empire and (in his opinion) soon to be ruler of the former Land of the Phoenix and Bucansi.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
Incredibly good looking, brown hair with blond streaks and green eyes. He's tall, strong and broad shouldered.

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious
Flaw(s): greedy, controlling, selfish, abusive
Trademark/Quirk: stalker?

I won't give a story except, but I will tell you a bit more about how he fits in. So, Avadier reaches out to the king in his time of need (three out of six of his advisers have been paid off and are spies working for Avadier). The Avadierish make an alliance with the king and he betrothes the main character to Prince Laddiv. The Avadierish prince comes over and provides military might and strategic assistance to the king to help him get rid of the Bucansian General Tullica, the one who basically is stopping the king from taking over Bucansi. But he also brings a delegate of dignitaries, which turn out to be an invading force of soldiers in disguise as dignitaries and they're there to ensure that the prince marries the main character, or overthrow her if she doesn't.

Now, things get a little more complicated.

Introducing antagonist three:

Name: The Lords of the Darkness (Seriously uncertain of this name... I think I had just finished a Doctor Who episode and "Time Lord" was in my head)
Age: Immortal
Birthplace: Blackened, uniform plane of existence with very little life, if any.

Occupation: Trying to take over the mortal plane of existence because they killed everything in their own plane and they're hungry.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
Shadows

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious
Flaw(s): greedy, controlling, manipulative
Trademark/Quirk: They eat souls and every single immortal species is scared of them

Once again, no story except, just more of an explanation. So, in the last thirty years, Avadier had expanded from just a kingdom to a large empire. But how did they get so powerful, so quickly? They made a deal with these Lords of the Darkness, which effectively made the Avadierish immortals. The Avadierish have this wish to control the world, and the Lords of the Darkness are all too happy to help them, not only because they get the Avadierish souls to munch on once they've lived a century, but because they need to have half of the world under their control (or Avadierish control) to fully invade the mortal plane.

Now that seven countries have been invaded and are under Avadierish control, only the Land of the Phoenix and Bucansi are all that stands in the way of the Lords of the Darkness taking over the mortal plane of existence...

Poetic-Jessie wrote:Name: The Lords of the Darkness (Seriously uncertain of this name... I think I had just finished a Doctor Who episode and "Time Lord" was in my head)
Age: Immortal
Birthplace: Blackened, uniform plane of existence with very little life, if any.

Occupation: Trying to take over the mortal plane of existence because they killed everything in their own plane and they're hungry.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
Shadows

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious
Flaw(s): greedy, controlling, manipulative
Trademark/Quirk: They eat souls and every single immortal species is scared of them

Once again, no story except, just more of an explanation. So, in the last thirty years, Avadier had expanded from just a kingdom to a large empire. But how did they get so powerful, so quickly? They made a deal with these Lords of the Darkness, which effectively made the Avadierish immortals. The Avadierish have this wish to control the world, and the Lords of the Darkness are all too happy to help them, not only because they get the Avadierish souls to munch on once they've lived a century, but because they need to have half of the world under their control (or Avadierish control) to fully invade the mortal plane.

Now that seven countries have been invaded and are under Avadierish control, only the Land of the Phoenix and Bucansi are all that stands in the way of the Lords of the Darkness taking over the mortal plane of existence...

I have questions. Your shadow lords confuse me a little and I would like to know more.  

They are shadows but do they actually consist of matter and are they just something you can't quite put your finger on. That they seem to be something but just appear shadow like and so they are called shadows? Are they actual shadows or perhaps can people just not see them but only their shadow?

I understand they try to take over the mortal plane because they are hungry for souls. But how did they get on the mortal plane and where will they go once they have consumed everything? If the immortal species are scared of them, are the mortal species scared of them too? And how can they be stopped. And how are the Avadierish sure the dark lords won't betray them in the end and munch on them anyway? Do the Avadierisch not care about the future of their Empire? to let something like this happen? They wished for immortality but why do they let the dark lords eat them anyway after a century or did they have some sort of plan to stop the dark lords in the end?  How does immortality add to the power of the Avadierish and are all Avadierish immortal now? And how does their immortality work? Can they still be killed?

Last question: How large is your world or are your countries if seven countries make up half of your world?

Sorry for this overload on questions. I am actually quite surprised I have them for once. I hope they help you (And this is exactly what my boyfriend always does to me. He would probably come up with even more if I asked him)

Anyway Prince Laddiv (I like his name) seems to have a large agenda and I think he makes a great antagonist. The title prince would be right I guess. It seems fitting. How does he act in general? He seems cold hearted to me. I definitely wouldn't want to go against him and avoid him if I had the choice.

I guess your way of giving feedback is rubbing of on me I will try to give feedback like this more often if I have the time.

Elowen-Astrid wrote:
I have questions. Your shadow lords confuse me a little and I would like to know more.

They are shadows, but made up of a squishy sort of substance. They appear vaguely gaseous, but that's just the tendrils of darkness floating off them, giving them that shadow-like appearance. They can be touched but light doesn't disperse them. But they can be killed if the immortal fighting them is willing to die to kill them (not many of them are willing to do this though). That's why phoenixes are such good allies in this war, because when a phoenix dies, they just rise from their ashes.

As to how they got across into the mortal plane in the first place, similar to how the other immortals can cross into the mortal world through specific portals, so can the Lords of the Darkness. But they can't all come into the mortal world unless they first have half of the world under their control (I don't really know why, maybe there can be a reference to a long-forgotten war with them that the immortals can make and that's why they can't all come through... Or maybe that's just how these portals work...)

The mortals aren't scared of them because they don't know what their goals are and how they eat people (that long forgotten war again maybe). So, the Avadierish just think, 'great! we've got immortals on our side now, let's take over the world!' without realising that immortals have their own agenda for interfering with mortals. (Mortals unwittingly stumble into immortal traps all the time in this world, and they don't always live to tell the tale, so they're not really clued up when dealing with immortals).

The Lords of the Darkness promised the Avadierish 'temporary immortality' saying that they couldn't give true immortality, but they could ensure that no one kills or assassinates them for one hundred years. The Avadierish jumped at this and threw themselves into conquering the world, not really thinking about what happens to their souls afterwards (I suppose it's similar to those stories about how someone sells their soul to the devil for something in their lifetime. Why do they sell their souls? Greed? Lust? Power?) I imagine there would be a few in Avadier who would refuse to do sell their souls, but the Avadierish probably kill all those, especially soldiers, who refuse.

Living in a country that is its own continent, my country is huge and the distances to the nearest country are so large that I guess this came out in my writing. Now that I think about it, unless I want the world to be made up of fourteen different cultures and kingdoms (which I don't) and if I really want to make Avadier a huge threat, I should increase the countries they've conquered from seven to about 77. But maybe I'll make it that they've conquered that many countries over the last 50 odd years instead of thirty.

Elowen-Astrid wrote: Anyway Prince Laddiv (I like his name) seems to have a large agenda and I think he makes a great antagonist. The title prince would be right I guess. It seems fitting. How does he act in general? He seems cold hearted to me. I definitely wouldn't want to go against him and avoid him if I had the choice.

Glad you like the name In general, he spends his time trying to isolate Lumina from her supports, stalking her, trying to make sure she knows that she is his property. He's not a very nice person and he's cold hearted. But he's young too, so he consults with his advisers on how to go about getting Lumina under his absolute control.

Elowen-Astrid wrote:
Sorry for this overload on questions. I am actually quite surprised I have them for once. I hope they help you (And this is exactly what my boyfriend always does to me. He would probably come up with even more if I asked him)... I guess your way of giving feedback is rubbing of on me I will try to give feedback like this more often if I have the time.

All good, you really helped me and made me think about my antagonists and the world I'm building. I've got more depth to them as a result. Thanks for this XD

Poetic-Jessie wrote:Very Happy All good, you really helped me and made me think about my antagonists and the world I'm building. I've got more depth to them as a result. Thanks for this XD

I am glad I could help. Your answers helped me understand the dark lords and the Avadierish a lot better. Questions sometimes make me feel uneasy but they are really helpful in adding depth and finding flaws.

Yeah, I get uneasy with questions too I'm not sure if when I ask them the person will see it as an attack on their writing, or see it as me just trying to find faults and flaws. I don't ask them to attack, I ask to understand and explore and to help develop characters. And when I receive them, I sometimes need to remind myself of my own motivations when I ask questions. Once I'm reminded of that, it's much easier to examine my characters and answer questions. But they are really helpful, I find

Poetic-Jessie wrote:Yeah, I get uneasy with questions too I'm not sure if when I ask them the person will see it as an attack on their writing, or see it as me just trying to find faults and flaws. I don't ask them to attack, I ask to understand and explore and to help develop characters. And when I receive them, I sometimes need to remind myself of my own motivations when I ask questions. Once I'm reminded of that, it's much easier to examine my characters and answer questions. But they are really helpful, I find

I appreciate questions. I ask them in my head to prevent plot holes as I write and revise.

Right now asking questions would be very helpful, as everyone is still in the development phase. It would help people put everything together.

Call Me Nefret wrote:
I appreciate questions. I ask them in my head to prevent plot holes as I write and revise.

Right now asking questions would be very helpful, as everyone is still in the development phase. It would help people put everything together.

Thanks for giving me feedback on my feedback XD and I'm glad to know you appreciate my questions

Poetic-Jessie wrote:
Thanks for giving me feedback on my feedback XD and I'm glad to know you appreciate my questions

Not a problem! Also, I'm not sure whether or not the title prince would work in an empire. Britain kinda fudged in the word "empire" in their title because at one point Queen Victoria's daughter was in line to become empress (until her husband died) and Victoria didn't want her daughter having a higher title than her. I think she was only technically considered empress of India.

But really, any other title would be sort of weird. Although with the way he acts and the amount of power he wields, I could see Laddiv going by the title "Grand Prince". A silly distinction, I know, but in the city-states of the early Kievan Rus (what is now Russia) "Grand Prince" was the title used for someone that controlled the area entirely, not just the son of a king. It's more indicative of the power he has.

Call Me Nefret wrote:Not a problem! Also, I'm not sure whether or not the title prince would work in an empire. Britain kinda fudged in the word "empire" in their title because at one point Queen Victoria's daughter was in line to become empress (until her husband died) and Victoria didn't want her daughter having a higher title than her. I think she was only technically considered empress of India.

But really, any other title would be sort of weird. Although with the way he acts and the amount of power he wields, I could see Laddiv going by the title "Grand Prince". A silly distinction, I know, but in the city-states of the early Kievan Rus (what is now Russia) "Grand Prince" was the title used for someone that controlled the area entirely, not just the son of a king. It's more indicative of the power he has.

Wow, thanks! I did not know any of that about Queen Victoria or Kievan Rus. Fascinating! Hmm... Prince Laddiv is only a minor prince (he doesn't control any land (at least I don't think he does :/ ) I imagined him to be like the princesses of ancient Japan, how they had third and fourth princesses (and seemingly from different mothers... -sigh- I should probably research that one...) but I think they were called princesses of the third/fourth order), so considering he has no land and only a title/influence/money and wasn't going to inherit anything other than what non-crown princes inherit (that's about the extent of my knowledge of royalty ), would he be a prince or a Grand Prince? Or would he receive the title of Grand Prince in expectation of controlling all of the Land of the Phoenix and Bucansi?

I do like the title Grand Prince Laddiv, though. When the schemers in his party say to the king, "We just want to ensure our prince has the power his station deserves" it would add more weight to it if they slipped "grand prince" in there...

Poetic-Jessie wrote:

Wow, thanks! I did not know any of that about Queen Victoria or Kievan Rus. Fascinating! Hmm... Prince Laddiv is only a minor prince (he doesn't control any land (at least I don't think he does :/ ) I imagined him to be like the princesses of ancient Japan, how they had third and fourth princesses (and seemingly from different mothers... -sigh- I should probably research that one...) but I think they were called princesses of the third/fourth order), so considering he has no land and only a title/influence/money and wasn't going to inherit anything other than what non-crown princes inherit (that's about the extent of my knowledge of royalty ), would he be a prince or a Grand Prince? Or would he receive the title of Grand Prince in expectation of controlling all of the Land of the Phoenix and Bucansi?

I do like the title Grand Prince Laddiv, though. When the schemers in his party say to the king, "We just want to ensure our prince has the power his station deserves" it would add more weight to it if they slipped "grand prince" in there...

Even if he's doesn't rightly deserve the title, he seems like the kind of character that would demand it. He wants to take over the world after all. Giving himself a title above what he deserves would go right along with that.

I'm not sure if I posted some feedback for your antagonist, Astrid, so I'm doing it now. I know I referred to your antagonist when commenting on your side characters. Maybe that's how I got confused, because I remember commenting on Tedwin then and for some reason my brain just ticked the box for feedback on him altogether.

Elowen-Astrid wrote:As for formats, I think it is better to go with what fits the character the best.

Name: Tedwin Avery
Age: 49

Occupation: Mage hunter and member of the Order of the Sun (basically the magical inquisition).

Description: A seasoned warrior of noble heritage who has hunted mages for over half his life. His wife and unborn child were killed by a mage and he swore to avenge her. He might not be as fast as he used to be but he must not be underestimated. His skill is renowned and deadly. Few mages have escaped him a first time and when they did they not often escaped a second time.

PHYSICAL APPEARANCE
About 180 cm (5’11”) tall, broad and fit. He carries himself like a warrior and looks like he has known fighting for all his live. He probably was quite handsome when he was younger but now scars and a broken nose decorate his face. His short hair is a darkish grey and he has a short well-kept beard.

Strengths: determined, intelligent, ambitious, persistent, strategical thinking, straightforward.
Flaw(s): Unreasonable when it comes to mages, opinionated toward mages. He is not very political.  
Trademark/Quirk: His hate for mages, skills as a fighter.

I am not quite sure about this yet. But I think part of why he is as good at hunting mages as he is, because he perhaps made a deal with a demon. This do not mean his fighting and ‘normal’ hunting skills but something you can’t quite put your finger on. He is a little unsettling when you see him.  Mages look like perfectly normal people and you probably wouldn’t know someone was a mage unless that person told you or you saw him/her doing magic. But he just seems to have an instinct for finding mages when they are near.

I also want him to have something like a good side. I don't think he is a completely bad person, he is just messed up. I think he would be good to his comrades and that he can be a pretty good friend. But he is relentless when it comes to mages.

They say that antagonists are victims who don't have their story told and I can see this in Tedwin. I like that he has an understandable reason for hunting mages. Vengeance for his dead wife and unborn child. And yes, maybe he's taken it too far and is using this grief as a way to justify killing all mages, but it's still an understandable beginning.

I think I would feel conflicted about hating him, especially if you give him a good side. Like you wrote, add that he's a good friend, that his fellow hunters rely on him and look up to him. You could possibly throw in a scene or statement about how he comes through and save the lives of children/hapless victims/fellow hunters.

I like that he might have made a deal with a demon to become a better hunter. I'm curious if Rainulf will pick up on this somehow and maybe force him to act on his demon hunting past and confront Tedwin. It's something to think about.

I also like that he's a sort of sniffer dog when it comes to finding mages. It makes him that much more dangerous and makes me curious about how Oliver and the others will keep their magic hidden in general and, especially, around Tedwin.

Even if you didn't add the good side to him, I would still feel conflicted about hating him and this, to me, implies that you've got a well-developed character